Comments on Anarchic Killer Frog

Not sure whether this is too powerful for a specialized Summon Monster II spell? Consider the weak Anarchic Giant Frog alternative. Generally I think summoned creatures are too weak, and if you have a spell that will only summon one particular creature, then why not upgrade that creature to something a Summon Monster III spell would call.

– Alex 2009-04-26 14:42 UTC


I agree, monsters summoned by the Summon line are very weak, as far as I can tell. Players who want to be monster summoners rely on other spells to get their creatures, however they are all non-core. That said, maybe the designers had something else in mind.

I decided to find a summon monster spell because I realised that because I was not summoning creatures, I was reducing the party overall strength - Peregrin can gain good advantages with flanking, which can be set up with sommoned creatures, I therefore saw it as a party synergy thing, not valuable in it’s own right.

That said, the strong frog is quite tough, which suits the frog type, but does not do much damage (also suits the frog type).

The weaker frog would be expected to die from the first hit from a melee type, and I would not expect it to actually hit anything in combat, except by very good luck. With the weak frog I would therefore only expect to suummon it to give Peregrin a single sneak attack oportunity (and then the frog dies), and in most fights there is probably something else I can cast that would be more useful.

Basically the strong frog is quite nice, but I don’t believe that it’s overpowered (I like the Smite Law bit). If I had had that spell when Bolas was level 3, then it would have been a different matter, the strong frog at level 3 would have been overpowered. At current ECLs I would use a level 2 slot for this spell, however it is unlikely that I would use a level 3 slot for it, so it’s about right.

From a DM’s perspective, it becomes whether the summoned creatures noticiably changes the party power, (and how much of an advantage you expect the party as a whole to gain from casting this spell).

Finally: I like the idea of using specific spells to summon specific creatures, and would then try to gain one at probably every other spell level (by finding people of sell interesting ones, or questing for them), but I do not plan to give up any of my planned level gain spells (2 spells each level) to take summon monster spells.

We should discuss more…

– lioc 2009-04-26 16:50 UTC


Well, then let it be the strong frog, and we’ll keep the week frog for a Summon Monster I scroll to be found… ;)

I also like more specific summoning spells just as I like the specific polymorph spells introduced by Monte Cook in his Book of Experimental Might.

Not using your two automatic spells to research specific summoning spells makes perfect sense.

On a lighter note, now I keep thinking about the spell Rain of Frogs. :)

If we really wanted to make this spell something to be ruled, we might have decided that the frog power depends on the caster level to make it more appropriate for a wider range of levels. Then again, maybe we can declare it right now: This spell will summon an anarchic frog from the color pools of Limbo. The might of the frog depends on the might of the caster.

CL Frog
1Giant Frog
2Anarchic Giant Frog
3?
4Anarchic Killer Frog
5?
6?
7?
8?
9?

– Alex 2009-04-26 21:13 UTC