Comments on 2008-01-21 Ranmaash

Are they also opposed to slay living, finger of death, flesh to stone, destruction, and the host of other save or die spells available? If they are, then they are being consistent and, in many ways, going the way of 4E with regards to save or die effects. It is something that I respect – after all, a single failed saving throw ends a character that could be literally months or even years old. With raise dead, this is obviously less of an issue, but then the loss of the level is again a rather draconian measure where you are essentially stripping away the benefits earned from multiple sessions worth of gaming.

Now, if they want to cast these spells, then they have to deal with the consequences of facing those spells and similar effects, like paralysis + coup de grace. Not using hold person or the coup de grace action is not a viable argument if they’ve used other spells with similar results.

– Adrian 2008-01-22 13:24 UTC


Hmmmm. Remember that coup de grace is a full round action so it can be stopped by quick thinking players - they’ve got until the same initiative count on the next round to prevent it. It also provokes an Attack of Opportunity too, and I’d allow players to try pretty much anything to stop a coup de grace taking place, including firing a missile (usually not an !AoO option) or casting a spell. Nothing says “STOP” better than a well aimed Lightning Bolt :)

I certainly wouldn’t disallow them as this means you’re imposing artificial rules on Evil critters who would use coup de grace, and therefore you’re not giving the players a chance to do Heroic Stuff by preventing it.

That said, it’s not something I’d use very often, but I’d keep the threat of Instant Death in there. Risk Heroics are, after all, the best kind.

GreyWulf 2008-01-22 14:30 UTC


Yeah, that was my thinking too. The two ghouls would have liked to start munching on Aurin because their fellow ghouls were protecting them from attacks of opportunity, and I can’t remember what the Wizard was doing.

The fight against the desert bandits was fun because it started with the bandits on their horses. Our trip master then pulled them all from their horses which left lots of horses standing on the battlefield. I ruled that it required a Tumble DC 25 to move through their squares for the party – or a Jump DC 15. So both the Shadowdancer and the Dragon Disciple jumped over horses at critical moments to reach their opponents. I liked that.

– AlexSchroeder 2008-01-22 14:46 UTC


Actually, the Coup de Grace is a “Full Round Action”, not an action that takes 1 round. This means that like Charge, Full Attack etc, the action cannot be interupted (The Ghouls just cannot make anything else except a 5 foot step).

There were no attacks of opportunity because:

The Wizard at that time was in quite some problems because he already had to cast invisibility on himself because there was a ghoul right next to him (and with an AC of 15 you just don’t do stupid things beside a ghoul).

Additionally, there was no way I could have cast Lightning Bolt on both ghouls without hitting Aurin as well. (And I don’t even have the spell Lighting bolt yet, btw)

So IMO there was no way to get out of that without dying.

The main problem with this ghoul fight was something else however: They surprised us during the night (→ bad armor, → no buffs), managed to surround us (→ wizard hat to run)…

– Daniel B 2008-01-22 16:40 UTC


Perhaps if the two fighters had moved over and used a single attack to kill the two (after all: 13hp only) – then that would “interrupted” the action. But you are right, of course, it’s not the same like interrupting a spell. You have to actually kill them.

– AlexSchroeder 2008-01-22 17:02 UTC


I’d have no problem with that. But then this would mean that we “Houserule” a coup de grace as a 1 round action. Not a full round action. (As stated before: when you do a Full Attack, you cannot interrupt this in any way)

BTW: Also a “Full Round Action” spell cannot be interrupted… (Unless you prepare an action to do explicitly that)

– Daniel B 2008-01-22 20:58 UTC


Oh, now I get it. I think you’re right…

– AlexSchroeder 2008-01-22 21:12 UTC


Did I missed something? :D

zeno 2008-01-23 09:16 UTC


The undead wanted to eat Aurin alive, but then they decided to be killed by Fäm instead… :)

– AlexSchroeder 2008-01-23 09:20 UTC


Hm, I computed the XP using “EL-XP-Calculator-35-v1.6.xls”. But when I compute them manually: Six lotus eaters CR 4, eight sand ghouls CR 1, three huge scorpions CR 7, five desert bandits CR 4 and their leader CR 8 ⇒ 8 CR1, 11 CR 4, 3 CR 7, 1 CR 8

; Level 11: (11*275+3*825+1100)/4=1650 ; Level 10: (11*375+3*1000+1500)/4=2156 ; Level 9: (11*506+3*1350+1800)/4=2854 ; Level 8: (8*200+11*600+3*1600+2400)/4=3850

Weird? I keep seeing a → lolcat (en) telling me “ur doin it all rong!!”

Updated: Fixed it on the front page.

– AlexSchroeder 2008-01-24 11:02 UTC


Level 9-11: Seems like they use different rules for “Low Level Monsters” (E.g: DMG gives no XP if the CR is equal or lower than the ECL - 8. The sheet does)

– Daniel B 2008-01-24 11:42 UTC


Yes, that was it. Fixed XP. :)

– AlexSchroeder 2008-01-25 08:48 UTC


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